I don’t think C is going to join to pick a book this time, so I just went ahead and started Woman in White. About 90 pages in and I really like it. Not too slow in getting started, and it has kept my interest. J and I were talking last night about how much we love Pesca “deuce-what-the-deuce!” and Mrs. Vesey, the sitter.
Favorite line so far is from Chapter 3 VII: “..it will always remain my private persuasion that Nature was absorbed in making cabbages when Mrs. Vesey was born, and that the good lady suffered the consequences of a vegetable preoccupation in the mind of the Mother of us all.”
Chapter 2 VI: “Louis, go away. What an ass you are. Don’t you see me holding the tablettes? Do you suppose I want to hold them? Then why not relieve me of the tablettes without being told? A thousand pardons, Mr. Hartright; servants are such asses, are they not?” What a horrid, horrid little man Mr. Fairlie is!
I really like Miss Halcombe's wit, I hope she has a prominent role in the book.
I'm also enjoying this book a lot. It is an interesting read and well-written, though at times it can be a bit long-winded. :-)
I detest Mr. Fairlie, think Miss Fairlie is a twit, and love Miss Halcombe and Mr Gilmore. The jury is still out of Mr. Hartrighte. At times I like him and at others he strikes me as being overly sentimental.
My other comments:
Preface to the 1861 Edition: "It may be possible, in novel-writing, to present characters successfully without telling a story; but it is not possible to tell a story successfully without presenting characters: their existence, as recognisable realities, being the sole condition on which the story can be effectively told." I've thought about this and I'm pretty sure I agree. At least until I can think of a good exception, which I haven't yet.
Hartright III: "...the overflowing happiness bursts out of me at every pore of my skin, like a perspiration." What a visual! I really like Pesca, too.
Hartright IV: "Remember that I was young; remember that the hand which touched me was a woman's." In the wrong context, this could seem very dirty.
Hartright VIII: "A mild, a compliant, an unutterably tranquil and harmless old lady, who never by any chance suggested the idea that she had been actually alive since the hour of her birth."
While I find this to be an interesting plot, I'm not sure I would categorize it as a suspense thriller.
Around pages 150-2500 (the beginning of Blackwater Park, whenever that is) I thought, "this is going a bit slow, let's get it going here" but then it picked up. I really liked it, and finished this weekend. I think part of what made it so good was how it was formatted, with each character only telling the parts in which they were directly involved.
I'll reserve the bulk of my comments for when everyone has finished, but I have to say, !deuce, what the deuce does Hartright see in Laura and not Marian? Just a pretty face? Grrr. I wish he had fallen for Marian! It would have messed up the entire plotline, but still. =)
Also, there came a point when Marian was disguising herself that I wondered more about 1850's English fashion, so here's a good link: http://www.darvillsrareprints.com/Ladies%20Fashions%201848%201850.htm
And at another point, Fasco exclaims, "Silence, Calumny!" and I had to look that up, so here's a good wikipedia article about Botticelli's painting of Calumny (Slander) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calumny_of_Apelles_(Botticelli)
M, farther on it does get a bit more "it was a dark and rainy night" but I think what makes it so suspenseful are the gaping secrets that neither the characters nor the reader are aware of until nearly the end of the book. Some I guessed at correctly from the beginning, some were a complete surprise. Just wait til you learn about Pesca!
I'm trying to think of a successful story without characters, or with poorly developed characters, and I'm drawing a blank. I'll have to ponder it some more on the commutes this week.
One last parting thought, my gracious but the postal system was fast in those days!
My moment of thinking "this is getting a little slow" is when Hartrighte picks up the story after Blackwater Park. It felt like it had pretty much ended the mystery and yet there were still a couple hundred pages to go. It began to pick up quickly again though.
I'll try to hold my comments until others have finished, but I have a hard time with that. :-) I agree with A that I think Marian Halcombe much better suited to Hartrighte than Laura. As I mentioned before, I think Laura is a twit.
It does get more dark and stormy, twisty-turny toward the middle. So far I've guessed most of the secrets, but then I haven't finished yet. I completely expected the deception in the middle by the Count and Percival.
Quote of note from Gilmore: Gilmore, Chapter 1: "Perhaps his temper is irritable at times? If so, I can sympathise with him. My temper is irritable at times too." I wish there was more of Mr. Gilmore.
As the book is gone from me today, I'll have to at least finish my quotes section.
Halcombe Ch. 2: "I banged the door after me; and I hope I shattered Mr. Fairlie's nervous system for the rest of the day." It is about time.
Halcombe Ch. 1 (Second Epoch): "Being, however, nothing but a woman, condemned to patience, propriety, and petticoats, for life, I must respect the housekeeper's opinions, and try to compose myself in some feeble and feminine way." I can't say how much I like Miss Halcombe and understand why she gets the one ardent admirer that she gets in the book.
"In other words, it is always Laura Fairlie who has been writing to me for the last six months, and never Lady Glyde." I like this idea that we are different people under different names. I always feel very different as Mel O'Connell than as Melissa Shaffer-O'Connell, which is different from Melissa Shaffer.
"I was almost wicked enought to wish Baxter had shot the housemaid instead of the dog." I was thinking that myself right before I read this line.
As much as I dislike Mr. Fairlie, I did enjoy his part of the narrative and found it much more amusing to read about him from his view than from the view of others. I especially laughed hard at his discussion of the evils that single people suffer at the had of married people. :-)
I don't have any pages marked past Fairlie's section. No wording struck my fancy and I was reading quickly enough that I didn't think to take note of much. I couldn't say much about that section without giving much away anyhow. I will agree with A about the surprise surrounding Pesca. Who'd have thought? But didn't the ending of both the conspirators seem a little too convenient?
Here are some other quotes I marked: CH 12, Miss Halcombe's Narrative "The main body of the building is of the time of that highly overrated woman, Queen Elizabeth"
CH 22, Fairlie's Narrative: "Let me do the girl justice. Her shoes did not creak" I wish I could quote his entire narrative. "What a man! What a digestion!"
CH 40, Fasco's Narritive, re his visit to Mr Fairlie: "When I have mentioned that this gentlemen was equally feeble in mind and body, and that I let loose the whole force of my character on him, I have said enough. I came, saw and conquered Fairlie." That last little line cracked me up.
What the deuce, what the deuce? One of my fave expressions from the book, here are some others.
Vincent Gilmore – chapter 2 “No sensible man ever engages, unprepared, in a fencing match of words with a woman.” EXACTLY right - sensible and prepared!
Vincent Gilmore – chapter 4 Mr. Fairlie has his valet hold etchings for him and says “At present he is simply a portfolio stand. Why object, Gilmore, to a portfolio stand?” I did enjoy Mr. Fairlie.
Mr. Fairlie’s part – “creaking shoes invariably upset me for the rest of the day”. If only that was a valid excuse to “take the day off” , think how fast creaky shoes would sell?
Mr. Hartright when leaving Marion to see Mrs. Catherick tells Marian “Never fear Marian! I answer for my self control.” Reminded me of an old western when the man of the house takes off to avenge a crime, leaving the little woman at home. Never fear! It’s the woman that’s left to “never fear”.
Mrs. Catherick just “happens” to have black mittens in her pocket so she is correctly dressed for mourning, this cracks me up. And then when describing her position in society states “The dress of Virtue, in our parts, was cotton print. I had silk.” Well good for you Mrs. Catherick.
I really couldn’t believe that Mr. Hartright did not acknowledge that he knew Percival at the inquest. There were so many people in town (I thought) that could state that he did know Percival and up until then I thought Mr. Hartright had been very honest and upright. It didn’t sit right with me that he lied here.
And what is up with the Count and his pets? Some strange quirk of his, huh? And he takes the mice with him when he leaves the country!
Oh you're so right about the mail system Angie. I meant to put that in my comments. The mail seemed to arrive extremely fast, went at all hours of the day and night and always, ALWAYS found it's recipient.
My copy states that this book has never been out of print since 1859 and has inspired several play adaptations and movies, one being a miniseries in 1982 by the BBC, and another British TV version in 1997. So M, go find them. You are the multi-media queen.
Also agree, I'm not sure what Hartright sees in Laura. And did I miss it but what was the story about Anne Catherick's father? I kept waiting for some explanation of why they looked so much alike.
I just finished reading the book today. Waited til I finished reading it before reading comments.
I found the book very very slow reading at first and very unnerving for some reason. I could only read a few pages at a time because it was leaving me edgy. I just kept having the feeling that something terrible was going to happen and I really did not want anything terrible to happen to these people that I was beginning to like. The ending paragraph of the book was so out of character from the rest of the book - almost too happy. But I am glad that it ended well.
I wish the author had told us who Ann Catherick's father was.
Laughing about all your comments about the speed of the mail. Our local post office leaves much to be desired in comparison.
I loved the scene where Fosco is writing his "confession" narrative... throwing pieces and pens all over the floor.. and then takes a nap and his wife says if she were him she would have shot Hartright. She really was an interesting character.
I hurried to finish reading the book only to find out that because of flooding in town that messed up the library I don't have to bring it back til Sep 27 instead of Sep 16.
There was a part at the end (I believe Hartright narrated it) that explained how Ann's mother was in service at a house where Laura's father was staying as a guest, just prior to both of their marriages. Mrs. Catherick left, married immediately and soon had a child. Mr. Fairlie left and married Laura's mother. Given that information and how much Laura and Ann looked alike, I think we are supposed to assume that they had the same father.
B, I'm glad you brought up Mrs. Fasco because we kind of skipped over her, but what an EVIL woman! I often wondered about her because they said her personality had changed drastically once she married. You have to wonder, was it Fasco's influence on her, or her influence on Fasco? She reminds me a little bit of Mrs. Danvers from Rebecca.
I was also under the impression that Ann and Laura had the same father. Do you tink this was a commment on sex outside of marriage that the bastard daughter was crazy and died young?
Mrs. Fosco's character was a complete mystery to me. Why the sudden change when she met Fosco and why so venomous? I think that woman was a little crazy too.
13 comments:
I don’t think C is going to join to pick a book this time, so I just went ahead and started Woman in White. About 90 pages in and I really like it. Not too slow in getting started, and it has kept my interest. J and I were talking last night about how much we love Pesca “deuce-what-the-deuce!” and Mrs. Vesey, the sitter.
Favorite line so far is from Chapter 3 VII:
“..it will always remain my private persuasion that Nature was absorbed in making cabbages when Mrs. Vesey was born, and that the good lady suffered the consequences of a vegetable preoccupation in the mind of the Mother of us all.”
Chapter 2 VI:
“Louis, go away. What an ass you are. Don’t you see me holding the tablettes? Do you suppose I want to hold them? Then why not relieve me of the tablettes without being told? A thousand pardons, Mr. Hartright; servants are such asses, are they not?”
What a horrid, horrid little man Mr. Fairlie is!
I really like Miss Halcombe's wit, I hope she has a prominent role in the book.
I'm also enjoying this book a lot. It is an interesting read and well-written, though at times it can be a bit long-winded. :-)
I detest Mr. Fairlie, think Miss Fairlie is a twit, and love Miss Halcombe and Mr Gilmore. The jury is still out of Mr. Hartrighte. At times I like him and at others he strikes me as being overly sentimental.
My other comments:
Preface to the 1861 Edition: "It may be possible, in novel-writing, to present characters successfully without telling a story; but it is not possible to tell a story successfully without presenting characters: their existence, as recognisable realities, being the sole condition on which the story can be effectively told." I've thought about this and I'm pretty sure I agree. At least until I can think of a good exception, which I haven't yet.
Hartright III: "...the overflowing happiness bursts out of me at every pore of my skin, like a perspiration." What a visual! I really like Pesca, too.
Hartright IV: "Remember that I was young; remember that the hand which touched me was a woman's." In the wrong context, this could seem very dirty.
Hartright VIII: "A mild, a compliant, an unutterably tranquil and harmless old lady, who never by any chance suggested the idea that she had been actually alive since the hour of her birth."
While I find this to be an interesting plot, I'm not sure I would categorize it as a suspense thriller.
Around pages 150-2500 (the beginning of Blackwater Park, whenever that is) I thought, "this is going a bit slow, let's get it going here" but then it picked up. I really liked it, and finished this weekend. I think part of what made it so good was how it was formatted, with each character only telling the parts in which they were directly involved.
I'll reserve the bulk of my comments for when everyone has finished, but I have to say, !deuce, what the deuce does Hartright see in Laura and not Marian? Just a pretty face? Grrr. I wish he had fallen for Marian! It would have messed up the entire plotline, but still. =)
Also, there came a point when Marian was disguising herself that I wondered more about 1850's English fashion, so here's a good link:
http://www.darvillsrareprints.com/Ladies%20Fashions%201848%201850.htm
And at another point, Fasco exclaims, "Silence, Calumny!" and I had to look that up, so here's a good wikipedia article about Botticelli's painting of Calumny (Slander)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calumny_of_Apelles_(Botticelli)
M, farther on it does get a bit more "it was a dark and rainy night" but I think what makes it so suspenseful are the gaping secrets that neither the characters nor the reader are aware of until nearly the end of the book. Some I guessed at correctly from the beginning, some were a complete surprise. Just wait til you learn about Pesca!
I'm trying to think of a successful story without characters, or with poorly developed characters, and I'm drawing a blank. I'll have to ponder it some more on the commutes this week.
One last parting thought, my gracious but the postal system was fast in those days!
Let's try that again!
Botticelli Article
London Fashion Article
My moment of thinking "this is getting a little slow" is when Hartrighte picks up the story after Blackwater Park. It felt like it had pretty much ended the mystery and yet there were still a couple hundred pages to go. It began to pick up quickly again though.
I'll try to hold my comments until others have finished, but I have a hard time with that. :-) I agree with A that I think Marian Halcombe much better suited to Hartrighte than Laura. As I mentioned before, I think Laura is a twit.
It does get more dark and stormy, twisty-turny toward the middle. So far I've guessed most of the secrets, but then I haven't finished yet. I completely expected the deception in the middle by the Count and Percival.
Quote of note from Gilmore:
Gilmore, Chapter 1: "Perhaps his temper is irritable at times? If so, I can sympathise with him. My temper is irritable at times too." I wish there was more of Mr. Gilmore.
As the book is gone from me today, I'll have to at least finish my quotes section.
Halcombe Ch. 2: "I banged the door after me; and I hope I shattered Mr. Fairlie's nervous system for the rest of the day." It is about time.
Halcombe Ch. 1 (Second Epoch): "Being, however, nothing but a woman, condemned to patience, propriety, and petticoats, for life, I must respect the housekeeper's opinions, and try to compose myself in some feeble and feminine way." I can't say how much I like Miss Halcombe and understand why she gets the one ardent admirer that she gets in the book.
"In other words, it is always Laura Fairlie who has been writing to me for the last six months, and never Lady Glyde." I like this idea that we are different people under different names. I always feel very different as Mel O'Connell than as Melissa Shaffer-O'Connell, which is different from Melissa Shaffer.
"I was almost wicked enought to wish Baxter had shot the housemaid instead of the dog." I was thinking that myself right before I read this line.
As much as I dislike Mr. Fairlie, I did enjoy his part of the narrative and found it much more amusing to read about him from his view than from the view of others. I especially laughed hard at his discussion of the evils that single people suffer at the had of married people. :-)
I don't have any pages marked past Fairlie's section. No wording struck my fancy and I was reading quickly enough that I didn't think to take note of much. I couldn't say much about that section without giving much away anyhow. I will agree with A about the surprise surrounding Pesca. Who'd have thought? But didn't the ending of both the conspirators seem a little too convenient?
Here are some other quotes I marked:
CH 12, Miss Halcombe's Narrative
"The main body of the building is of the time of that highly overrated woman, Queen Elizabeth"
CH 22, Fairlie's Narrative:
"Let me do the girl justice. Her shoes did not creak"
I wish I could quote his entire narrative. "What a man! What a digestion!"
CH 40, Fasco's Narritive, re his visit to Mr Fairlie:
"When I have mentioned that this gentlemen was equally feeble in mind and body, and that I let loose the whole force of my character on him, I have said enough. I came, saw and conquered Fairlie."
That last little line cracked me up.
What the deuce, what the deuce? One of my fave expressions from the book, here are some others.
Vincent Gilmore – chapter 2
“No sensible man ever engages, unprepared, in a fencing match of words with a woman.” EXACTLY right - sensible and prepared!
Vincent Gilmore – chapter 4
Mr. Fairlie has his valet hold etchings for him and says “At present he is simply a portfolio stand. Why object, Gilmore, to a portfolio stand?” I did enjoy Mr. Fairlie.
Mr. Fairlie’s part – “creaking shoes invariably upset me for the rest of the day”. If only that was a valid excuse to “take the day off” , think how fast creaky shoes would sell?
Mr. Hartright when leaving Marion to see Mrs. Catherick tells Marian “Never fear Marian! I answer for my self control.” Reminded me of an old western when the man of the house takes off to avenge a crime, leaving the little woman at home. Never fear! It’s the woman that’s left to “never fear”.
Mrs. Catherick just “happens” to have black mittens in her pocket so she is correctly dressed for mourning, this cracks me up. And then when describing her position in society states “The dress of Virtue, in our parts, was cotton print. I had silk.” Well good for you Mrs. Catherick.
I really couldn’t believe that Mr. Hartright did not acknowledge that he knew Percival at the inquest. There were so many people in town (I thought) that could state that he did know Percival and up until then I thought Mr. Hartright had been very honest and upright. It didn’t sit right with me that he lied here.
And what is up with the Count and his pets? Some strange quirk of his, huh? And he takes the mice with him when he leaves the country!
And Pesca, holy crap! Who woulda/coulda guessed?
Oh you're so right about the mail system Angie. I meant to put that in my comments. The mail seemed to arrive extremely fast, went at all hours of the day and night and always, ALWAYS found it's recipient.
My copy states that this book has never been out of print since 1859 and has inspired several play adaptations and movies, one being a miniseries in 1982 by the BBC, and another British TV version in 1997. So M, go find them. You are the multi-media queen.
Also agree, I'm not sure what Hartright sees in Laura. And did I miss it but what was the story about Anne Catherick's father? I kept waiting for some explanation of why they looked so much alike.
I just finished reading the book today. Waited til I finished reading it before reading comments.
I found the book very very slow reading at first and very unnerving for some reason. I could only read a few pages at a time because it was leaving me edgy. I just kept having the feeling that something terrible was going to happen and I really did not want anything terrible to happen to these people that I was beginning to like. The ending paragraph of the book was so out of character from the rest of the book - almost too happy. But I am glad that it ended well.
I wish the author had told us who Ann Catherick's father was.
Laughing about all your comments about the speed of the mail. Our local post office leaves much to be desired in comparison.
I loved the scene where Fosco is writing his "confession" narrative... throwing pieces and pens all over the floor.. and then takes a nap and his wife says if she were him she would have shot Hartright. She really was an interesting character.
I hurried to finish reading the book only to find out that because of flooding in town that messed up the library I don't have to bring it back til Sep 27 instead of Sep 16.
There was a part at the end (I believe Hartright narrated it) that explained how Ann's mother was in service at a house where Laura's father was staying as a guest, just prior to both of their marriages. Mrs. Catherick left, married immediately and soon had a child. Mr. Fairlie left and married Laura's mother. Given that information and how much Laura and Ann looked alike, I think we are supposed to assume that they had the same father.
B, I'm glad you brought up Mrs. Fasco because we kind of skipped over her, but what an EVIL woman! I often wondered about her because they said her personality had changed drastically once she married. You have to wonder, was it Fasco's influence on her, or her influence on Fasco? She reminds me a little bit of Mrs. Danvers from Rebecca.
J- I'll be sure to check out those movies. :-)
I was also under the impression that Ann and Laura had the same father. Do you tink this was a commment on sex outside of marriage that the bastard daughter was crazy and died young?
Mrs. Fosco's character was a complete mystery to me. Why the sudden change when she met Fosco and why so venomous? I think that woman was a little crazy too.
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